The poetry of everyday life, anti-poetry, stream-of-consciousness: how do we want to characterize the poems we've read this week? Do you like the poems? Do the work? Do they make sense? What passages do you want to look at as we try to answer these questions?
The poems this week can probably all be classified as anti-literary, anti-intellectual, and anti-elite. They also focus on immediacy and motion. I'd like to look at Howl, and specifically, Ginsberg's quest to escape the mechanical thinking of a capitalist culture and his concept of "Rockland." Ginsberg seems to be trying to create an alternative consciousness, a break from rational, enlightenment thought that seems to be part mental breakdown, part religious revelation. Rockland is his new community, his alternative state of mind. But even with his "surrealist juxtapositions" that we spoke about in class, I'm not quite sure if it is possible to create something alternative to what is a normal state of mind. Ginsberg has problems similar to Frank O'Hara's- the medium he works in frustrates his attempts of breaking down the current system because the words he uses all refer to images and objects within that current thought system. But does this matter though? Howl certainly succeeds in forming a Rockland-like subculture.
ReplyDelete--Corey Fernandez, M 4-450
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ReplyDelete"It's my lunch hour, I go
ReplyDeletefor a walk among the hum-colored
cabs. First, down the sidewalk
where laborers feed their dirty
glistening torsos sandwiches
and Coca-Cola, with yellow helmets
on. They protect them from falling
bricks, I guess. Then onto the"
'dirty glistening torsos' reminds me of the surrealist juxtaposition that
Professor Posnock talked about with Ginsberg and also I wonder about the way the sentences are broken up.
Mirala--Monday 11-11:50am recitation
I think that the poems this week can be classified as stream-of-consciousness, "Howl" because it seems to be a never-ending list of random thoughts, inside jokes, and personal memories, and O'Hara's poems because they deal with mundane topics in interesting ways yet with a rather bland approach. "Howl" is probably one of my favorite poems, if only because it just seems to me like madness embodied. Also, it's one of the best poems to recite out loud (and, there's no scansion needed to understand the poem, so that's a bonus). I think it makes very little sense, however. It's the type of poem that you have to look up every other line to gather the full meaning. I know that when I first read it a few years ago I spent a lot of time looking into things, especially the comment about Blake after I learned about Blake in a history class. Overall, this poem is a masterpiece of insanity and I feel like I'm part of Ginsberg's world every time I read it.
ReplyDeleteBased on the way O'Hara composed his poems, it seems to me like they are perfect examples of anti-poetry. Instead of fragments, O'Hara writes complete sentences (although they may not always make sense), and simply breaks them up to physically look like a poem. I enjoyed "Why I Am Not a Painter" in particular, because I feel like he is almost mocking the thought process and final product of artists like himself, or at least trying to humor the people who may not understand them.
ReplyDelete-Michelle, M 11:00-11:50
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ReplyDeleteI am very interested in the two O'Hara poems "Ave Maria" and "The Image of Leda." The topic he addresses, cinema, was just beginning to be thought of as a high art form, thus relating to O'Hara's style as anti-literary or anti-elite. I am particularly interested in the these three lines from "The Image of Leda"-
ReplyDelete"We ourselves appear naked on the river bank spread-eagled while the machine wings nearer. We scream chatter prance and wash our hair! Is it our prayer or wish that this occur?"
I would like to discuss the image of Leda in this poem and what this reference means in terms of O'Hara's view of cinema.
-Molly S 4-4:50
I am particularly interested in the idea of Time as it used in Ginsberg's "Howl." It takes on different meanings over the course of it's five appearances within the poem. I would like to work through this and perhaps find some deeper connection between this device and the poem itself.
ReplyDeletepp. 62: "the motionless world of Time between..."
(this presents an interesting consideration, perhaps paradoxical)
pp. 65: "Eternity outside of Time..."
(makes me question what time actually is)
pp. 66: "went away to find out the Time..."
(seems to be a reference point and close to the literal meaning as it is describing Dean's trip to Denver and perhaps his lost sense of his relation to time)
pp. 67: "the madman and the angel beat in time..."
(it seems to take on a rhythmic meaning, as if to indicate that they are moving at the same time and the there is some mutual understanding there)
pp. 69: "down on the rocks of Time..."
(rocks describes Time in a metaphorical way. i made me think of rough terrain and then trying times)
It just seems that a word appearing so frequently must be demanding our attention in some way.
Dale Padelford
Monday 4-4:50
I am interested in looking at the qualities and or stylistic elements of the poems and thinking about how they work to carve out a role for the reader. How do these author's feel about their poems being read? What can we make of the highly referential nature of Ginsberg's "Howl"? Both the referentiality and other literary factors--namely the rolling pace and avid exclamation "Moloch! Moloch! Holy! Holy!" seem to create distance from the reader (antagonistic? irreverent? irrelevant?). O'hara's voice feels closer than Ginsberg, but perhaps because his literary convention is is more relatable, familiar and thus accessible. Could the simplicity and "train of thought" style be somewhat deceptive?
ReplyDeleteI am also interested in considering the ways in which writing and poetry are themselves addressed by the poets and how they relate to time. In O'Hara's poem "Poetry," he writes, "A praying/mantis knows time more/intimately than I and is/more casual. Crickets use/time for accompaniment to/innocent fidgeting. A zebra races counterclockwise./All this I desire."
-oriane p 4-450
I would like to discuss spirituality in Ginsberg's "Howl." It is not a traditional religious spirituality, but rather, a cosmic transcendental spirituality. I believe he constructs this topic and delves into it from a number of angles, for example, through suffering, art, and the everyday. A few relevant excerpts:
ReplyDelete"who drove crosscounty seventytwo hours to find out if I had a vision or you had a vision or he had a vision to find out Eternity" (66)
"who fell on their knees in hopeless cathedrals praying for each other's salvation and light and breasts, until the sould illuminated its hair for a second" (66)
"the madman bum angel beat in Time...saxophone cry" (67)
Plus the footnote with its litany of "Holy!"
Marlena Gittleman
M 4-4:50
I think the poems make perfect sense if we see the backgrounds and intentions of the lines.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to discuss the design of The Day Lady Died. And the connection between the first, second, and third part of Howl.
Xuela Zhang
M 11:00-11:50
Poetry
ReplyDeleteThe only way to be quiet is to be quick, so I scare you clumsily, or surprise you with a stab.
I have never been good at disecting poetry, but I like the first line of this poem. I think he is trying to give a description of the way he wants his poetry to reach his audience with this verse. He wants his readers to be in awe, but not realize their wonderment has came from Frank Ohara, the poet.
I am having trouble, however, understanding the link and purpose with the praying mantis, crickets, and Zebras. What associations are they drawing?